Comments on: What if make up wasn’t used as barometer of feminist cred? http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/ I question, therefore I am. Tue, 16 Mar 2010 03:19:06 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: professor what if http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-338 professor what if Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:08:56 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-338 Renee, I like your positive outlook. But wait, aren't womanists and feminists like ourselves supposed to be all angry and negative? ;) Good points about many things being problematic -- but, as you point out, we do have choices as consumers -- I only wish that corporations didn't rule the globe so that shopping without exploiting could be a bit easier... Nihilunder, I think feminism differs from humanism and liberalism in that it puts more emphasis on the collective than on the individual... Also, it emphasizes that we are not 'free acting individuals' but rather people shaped by the society/culture in which we live. Humanism often claims we are rational, autonomous individuals whereas liberalism focuses on the 'rights' of the individual. Both are thus overly focussed on a non-postmodern understanding of self. Feminism focuses on 'rights' and on the importance of individual choice, but acknowledges the interconnectivity or inersectionality of many factors. Thus, feminism does not only emphasize gender, but also race, class, sexuality, ability, etc. Renee,
I like your positive outlook. But wait, aren’t womanists and feminists like ourselves supposed to be all angry and negative? ;)
Good points about many things being problematic — but, as you point out, we do have choices as consumers — I only wish that corporations didn’t rule the globe so that shopping without exploiting could be a bit easier…

Nihilunder,
I think feminism differs from humanism and liberalism in that it puts more emphasis on the collective than on the individual… Also, it emphasizes that we are not ‘free acting individuals’ but rather people shaped by the society/culture in which we live. Humanism often claims we are rational, autonomous individuals whereas liberalism focuses on the ‘rights’ of the individual. Both are thus overly focussed on a non-postmodern understanding of self. Feminism focuses on ‘rights’ and on the importance of individual choice, but acknowledges the interconnectivity or inersectionality of many factors. Thus, feminism does not only emphasize gender, but also race, class, sexuality, ability, etc.

]]> By: Nihilunder http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-328 Nihilunder Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:14:29 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-328 This is a good example of how *any* popular movement can easily become just another set of arbitrary rules. As a non(though not anti)-feminist male, my main beef with the "no make up" crowd is not that those comprising it choose not to wear makeup or shave their body-hair, but that they act like us men who prefer such things are de-facto sexist pigs whos desires are motivated solely by a drive to oppress women. The core of feminism, as I understand it, is humanism/liberalism with emphasis on women, and thus is concerned primarily with freedom...and freedom is nothing if not an obligation on the part of everyone to mind their own business on matters that don't concern them (such as clothing and facial adornment). This is a good example of how *any* popular movement can easily become just another set of arbitrary rules. As a non(though not anti)-feminist male, my main beef with the “no make up” crowd is not that those comprising it choose not to wear makeup or shave their body-hair, but that they act like us men who prefer such things are de-facto sexist pigs whos desires are motivated solely by a drive to oppress women.

The core of feminism, as I understand it, is humanism/liberalism with emphasis on women, and thus is concerned primarily with freedom…and freedom is nothing if not an obligation on the part of everyone to mind their own business on matters that don’t concern them (such as clothing and facial adornment).

]]> By: Renee http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-323 Renee Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:46:48 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-323 Living in a western country unless one lives in a secluded cabin in the woods completely off of the land it is difficult to avoid being complicit in the exploitation of others. What I think it is important to do is seek out products that circumvent such exchanges as much as possible. Though this post is about makeup I will throw out some other items that we regularly consume that are problematic, coffee, chocolate, clothing and flowers. For each of the aforementioned there are ways to purchase without victimizing someone. We just have to be dedicated in our choices. I firmly believe that there is power in our consumer dollars if we band together collectively. Living in a western country unless one lives in a secluded cabin in the woods completely off of the land it is difficult to avoid being complicit in the exploitation of others. What I think it is important to do is seek out products that circumvent such exchanges as much as possible. Though this post is about makeup I will throw out some other items that we regularly consume that are problematic, coffee, chocolate, clothing and flowers. For each of the aforementioned there are ways to purchase without victimizing someone. We just have to be dedicated in our choices. I firmly believe that there is power in our consumer dollars if we band together collectively.

]]> By: The Official Tilting at Windmills Cogito Ergo Sum Awards for August, 2008 « Tilting at Windmills http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-308 The Official Tilting at Windmills Cogito Ergo Sum Awards for August, 2008 « Tilting at Windmills Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:45:03 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-308 [...] Professor, what if… hit some good points also, on the topic of what makes a feminist. If you wear makeup, you must be a tool of the patriarchy, mustn’t you? Nope, I don’t think so, nor does Prof. Sheh notes that “In fact, I have often been accused of not being a “real feminist” because I like wearing make up.” I have too. Well, I’m a feminist and it strikes me that these rigidly defined categories of what is and what isn’t a good feminist is very…patriarchal in nature! [...] [...] Professor, what if… hit some good points also, on the topic of what makes a feminist. If you wear makeup, you must be a tool of the patriarchy, mustn’t you? Nope, I don’t think so, nor does Prof. Sheh notes that “In fact, I have often been accused of not being a “real feminist” because I like wearing make up.” I have too. Well, I’m a feminist and it strikes me that these rigidly defined categories of what is and what isn’t a good feminist is very…patriarchal in nature! [...]

]]> By: professor what if http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-307 professor what if Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:21:05 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-307 Smirking Cat, Ha! Perhaps I should try this stick whacking suggestion of yours. Thanks for reading. Smirking Cat,
Ha! Perhaps I should try this stick whacking suggestion of yours.
Thanks for reading.

]]> By: The Smirking Cat http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-306 The Smirking Cat Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:59:12 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-306 I am feminist, and I also love make-up. I also love cars and computers. It's all part of me, and the pigeonholing of "feminists do this, but don't wear this" is simply more boxing in by people who wouldn't know a feminist if she or he whacked them with a stick. I am feminist, and I also love make-up. I also love cars and computers. It’s all part of me, and the pigeonholing of “feminists do this, but don’t wear this” is simply more boxing in by people who wouldn’t know a feminist if she or he whacked them with a stick.

]]> By: rachelcervantes http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-301 rachelcervantes Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:57:49 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-301 Renee has a talent for that...she's challenged some of my positions too and I'm having to ask and answer some questions I'd rather not deal with. Major points to Renee for that. Right now, I suspect I won't give up my designer duds or makeup. But I'm going to be far more aware of what I'm doing in terms of the larger implications. While I'm ruminating on these points, some of the things I'm going to consider is context. How do these things compare with other practices we are devoted to? I need to figure out perspective on this. I have a (sinking) feeling that at some point I may feel compelled to give these things up. Just an aside, I only use animal-friendly products. That's intellectualizing the issue and a bandaid for my ethical quandry, but for right now, it's all I have! Renee has a talent for that…she’s challenged some of my positions too and I’m having to ask and answer some questions I’d rather not deal with. Major points to Renee for that.

Right now, I suspect I won’t give up my designer duds or makeup. But I’m going to be far more aware of what I’m doing in terms of the larger implications. While I’m ruminating on these points, some of the things I’m going to consider is context. How do these things compare with other practices we are devoted to? I need to figure out perspective on this. I have a (sinking) feeling that at some point I may feel compelled to give these things up.

Just an aside, I only use animal-friendly products. That’s intellectualizing the issue and a bandaid for my ethical quandry, but for right now, it’s all I have!

]]> By: professor what if http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-300 professor what if Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:52:51 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-300 Renee, Great points. Thanks for commenting. "I believe at times it necessary to weigh ones personal vanity against the cost to other women globally." Very good point. I don't know much about the labor practices surrounding mascara... But, as with other mass produced items, I assume them to be exploitive and to have a negative global effect. However, I wonder how we can even be clothed citizens in this world without having a negative global effect. (as Tilting at Windmills post and following comments discussed here: http://rachelcervantes.wordpress.com/ 2008/08/20/any-fashionistas-here/) While I may be able to give up mascara, I don't wish to walk through the world nude. Alas, what is a socially aware person to do in such a socially unjust world?!? But, your question,"How much is feeling pretty really worth?" really has got me thinking. Renee,
Great points. Thanks for commenting.

“I believe at times it necessary to weigh ones personal vanity against the cost to other women globally.” Very good point. I don’t know much about the labor practices surrounding mascara… But, as with other mass produced items, I assume them to be exploitive and to have a negative global effect.

However, I wonder how we can even be clothed citizens in this world without having a negative global effect. (as Tilting at Windmills post and following comments discussed here: http://rachelcervantes.wordpress.com/
2008/08/20/any-fashionistas-here/)

While I may be able to give up mascara, I don’t wish to walk through the world nude. Alas, what is a socially aware person to do in such a socially unjust world?!? But, your question,”How much is feeling pretty really worth?” really has got me thinking.

]]> By: Renee http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-299 Renee Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:51:10 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-299 <em>I understand that wearing make up is not without its problems. For example, recent work in ecofeminism and other areas reveals the environmental implications of everything from nail polish to product packaging. However, wearing make up seems like small potatoes compared to so many other social ills and norms.</em> I think we have a tendency to view it as trivial because make up is a womans sphere. I believe in the critique of eco feminists, the choices that we are making are not innocent and have a global effect. Think of the millions of women who daily participate in the beauty ritual and adorn their faces. I refrain from make up not because of the patriarchal gaze but because purchasing such products are harmful to the environment and they produced by exploiting the labor of women. Mascara is not just something that makes one feel good, it is also something that is damaging to women. I believe at times it necessary to weigh ones personal vanity against the cost to other women globally. How much is feeling pretty really worth? (Got your e-mail and will get it altogether by tomorrow) I understand that wearing make up is not without its problems. For example, recent work in ecofeminism and other areas reveals the environmental implications of everything from nail polish to product packaging. However, wearing make up seems like small potatoes compared to so many other social ills and norms.

I think we have a tendency to view it as trivial because make up is a womans sphere. I believe in the critique of eco feminists, the choices that we are making are not innocent and have a global effect. Think of the millions of women who daily participate in the beauty ritual and adorn their faces. I refrain from make up not because of the patriarchal gaze but because purchasing such products are harmful to the environment and they produced by exploiting the labor of women. Mascara is not just something that makes one feel good, it is also something that is damaging to women. I believe at times it necessary to weigh ones personal vanity against the cost to other women globally. How much is feeling pretty really worth?
(Got your e-mail and will get it altogether by tomorrow)

]]> By: Any fashionistas here? « Tilting at Windmills http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/what-if-make-up-wasnt-used-as-barometer-of-feminist-cred/#comment-298 Any fashionistas here? « Tilting at Windmills Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:51:04 +0000 http://professorwhatif.wordpress.com/?p=155#comment-298 [...] fashionistas here? 20 08 2008 Inspired by Professor What-If’s great post on feminists and makeup, I decided to write on fashion.  I’m a fashionista. I love designer clothes.  And I look [...] [...] fashionistas here? 20 08 2008 Inspired by Professor What-If’s great post on feminists and makeup, I decided to write on fashion.  I’m a fashionista. I love designer clothes.  And I look [...]

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